How can I get more shaft lean

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 4, 2020

The past couple of weeks I have been desperately trying to get more shaft lean to no avail. I find my hands to be barely in front of the ball at impact. It’s not as big an issue in my 7-4 iron but it’s killing me from 52°-8.

Current gapping:
56: 95-100
52: 105-110
PW: 120-125
9: 130-135
8: 145-150
7: 170-175
And so on...

I really want to bump up the distances in my short irons. Also hoping that by introducing more shaft lean I can also flight the ball lower. I’m current gaming P760s and when I had my PSi’s I was easily a club up from PW-8

gmiller598 · Sep 4, 2020

I know this isn't the greatest quality video but here is a video from one of the greatest teachers in Ohio. I've taken a few lessons from him and others in his studio. He talks about turning the knuckles down on the swing to create the forward shaft lean if this is what you are looking for.

WILDTHING · Sep 4, 2020

The above 'knuckle down' move is really a rehash of Joe Dante's 4 magic move concepts.

The Golf Backswing Part 3: The Thumb Press

How do you use your thumbs in a golf backswing? Enter the Thumb Press!

www.golf-swing-magic.com

A few instructors have resurrected it and I think they call it 'Twistaway' .

In my opinion , I wouldn't attempt it unless you've very strong wrists. Although the instructor in the above video was using a dumbbell (maybe 10 kg) to ingrain that 'feel' , try repeating that drill using 45 Kg which is how much 'dynamic weight' you'd feel with a driver swing approaching impact.

McLovin · Sep 4, 2020

what’s your driver swing speed? those distances look fine to me.

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 4, 2020

McLovin said:
what’s your driver swing speed? those distances look fine to me.

Irons are 98mph (maybe a little less for 60-52) and driver is about 107

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 4, 2020

Thanks guys. Definitely going to spend some time at the range trying to work this out. I really don’t want to be hitting my 9 iron 130 yards.

McLovin · Sep 4, 2020

MONTANTK said:
Irons are 98mph (maybe a little less for 60-52) and driver is about 107

distances might be a little short then. not terribly short though. maybe a club.

M2Giles · Sep 4, 2020

Before you do anything too extreme, check lofts on your short irons.

PSi, if they werent the forged tour version, have stronger lofts than p760s.

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 4, 2020

M2Giles said:
Before you do anything too extreme, check lofts on your short irons.

PSi, if they werent the forged tour version, have stronger lofts than p760s.

I might look into that then. These things just fly so high. Might consider knocking down PW-8 by 1-2°. Any downsides of doing this? The other thing too is that the PSi’s had more offset.

GolfLivesMatter · Sep 4, 2020

MONTANTK said:
Thanks guys. Definitely going to spend some time at the range trying to work this out. I really don’t want to be hitting my 9 iron 130 yards.

Why not a 130 yd 9 iron?

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 4, 2020

GolfLivesMatter said:
Why not a 130 yd 9 iron?

My ball flight is too high for that distance and I know I’m sacrificing a lot of yardage with no real benefit. I’d much rather be at my old distances.

GolfLivesMatter · Sep 4, 2020

MONTANTK said:
My ball flight is too high for that distance and I know I’m sacrificing a lot of yardage with no real benefit. I’d much rather be at my old distances.

Ok, but if your 9 iron is 130....95% of the time and on target that's a good thing IMO. If it's just 130 and everywhere but near the pin then I understand.

blueonblack · Sep 4, 2020

Strong grip.

Matthew · Sep 4, 2020

Maybe not the swing but maybe the shafts are just wrong for you.

razaar · Sep 4, 2020

Shaft lean is all about external rotation of the right shoulder, elbow forward near the belly button through impact. The right elbow has to stay ahead of the hands for as long as possible. The trick is learning all the movements leading up to this point.

BuffaloPlunger · Sep 5, 2020

GolfLivesMatter said:
Ok, but if your 9 iron is 130....95% of the time and on target that's a good thing IMO. If it's just 130 and everywhere but near the pin then I understand.

I agree but the dispersion is not good. The weird thing is though I was fitted for these in January. I was doing a retrofit for my PSi’s and the P760 was the closest thing.

GolfLivesMatter · Sep 5, 2020

MONTANTK said:
I agree but the dispersion is not good. The weird thing is though I was fitted for these in January. I was doing a retrofit for my PSi’s and the P760 was the closest thing.

I suggest watching videos about hitting against (or into) your left side. You might be swaying or sliding left to try to get shaft lean and thus it's possible you're kinda smothering the shot. I say this because just a few days ago I was on a par 3 135 yd. I had a ProV1 ball and a range ball. I teed off with the 9 iron with the ProV and it carried short about 129 yards. I know my "flaw" is leaning or sliding left before rotation. So on the next shot I tried to hit-into my left side and the range ball shot carried about 141. That's a 12 yard variation with the same club with a purportedly "lower-distance" golf ball flying farther.

TrueMotionMatt · Sep 9, 2020

Need some video to add a ton of value, but generally, You really need to work on your pivot and get your shaft to 'shallow out' properly. Once you do that, as long as your face isn't super open, you should be able to rotate around and not have to release it early. I

t's all about getting everything done in the right order, and as I'm sure others' have heard me say, make sure you have the right SetUP first (it's so simple), then get a good rotated backswing, and then get into the ground with the right face for your speed.

blueonblack · Sep 9, 2020

@TrueMotionMatt,
Why the eye roll on stronger grip? I can go to any number of sources right now that say a weak grip makes shaft lean more difficult.
I had ridiculous shaft lean with a strong grip. Its a simple answer, but its a simple starting point; not everything needs to be explained bio metrically.
Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I somewhat identified with J.B. Holmes, as that strong arse grip and holdoff move with all that SHAFT LEAN gives lots of power/distance.
It can also cause hell with the short game. J.B. is case in point in a lot of ways there. Bad bunker player for one. Not a good flopper. He's got so much shaft lean, it's almost a liability in his swing when it comes to his short game.

TrueMotionMatt · Sep 9, 2020

blueonblack said:
@TrueMotionMatt,
Why the eye roll on stronger grip? I can go to any number of sources right now that say a weak grip makes shaft lean more difficult.
I had ridiculous shaft lean with a strong grip. Its a simple answer, but its a simple starting point; not everything needs to be explained bio metrically.
Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

I somewhat identified with J.B. Holmes, as that strong arse grip and holdoff move with all that SHAFT LEAN gives lots of power/distance.
It can also cause hell with the short game. J.B. is case in point in a lot of ways there. Bad bunker player for one. Not a good flopper. He's got so much shaft lean, it's almost a liability in his swing when it comes to his short game.

Changing a grip is one of the hardest things to do, and there are ways to combat a weakish grip, if he does in fact have one...and who knows, his grip could be pretty strong; i.e. it's not the first place I'd start. We have no idea what his SetUp looks like, his pivot, how he shallows the club, how he's squaring it (I have a guess that he's throwing angles because of a poor SetUp & Pivot Down)

Shaft lean is a result of a bunch of other things

and to suggest he change his grip is like telling him to use a band aide on a broken arm.

blueonblack · Sep 9, 2020

TrueMotionMatt said:
Changing a grip is one of the hardest things to do, and there are ways to combat a weakish grip, if he does in fact have one...and who knows, his grip could be pretty strong; i.e. it's not the first place I'd start. We have no idea what his SetUp looks like, his pivot, how he shallows the club, how he's squaring it (I have a guess that he's throwing angles because of a poor SetUp & Pivot Down)

Shaft lean is a result of a bunch of other things and to suggest he change his grip is like telling him to use a band aide on a broken arm.

Grip, Posture, Alignment. They ALWAYS started at the grip when I came up. What do you have if you don't start there? What other part of my body is touching the club?

Certain things lead up to shot outcomes as you say. Its biometrics and the human body, after all, just like you say.
I can make assumptions as to what is causing it based on the shot outcome. MANY teachers instruct backwards and take the shot outcome and figure out what caused it in the swing. John Jacobs comes to mind. He worked backwards from ballflight. I never looked at my bad shots the same way after reading that. They pretty much tell me what I just did wrong. And there are only so many ways we can deviate from the fundamentals to get us out of synch, biotmetrically speaking, which is what you like to do.

Thrillbilly Jim · Sep 9, 2020

TrueMotionMatt · Sep 9, 2020

blueonblack said:
Grip, Posture, Alignment. They ALWAYS started at the grip when I came up. What do you have if you don't start there? What other part of my body is touching the club?

Certain things lead up to shot outcomes as you say. Its biometrics and the human body, after all, just like you say.
I can make assumptions as to what is causing it based on the shot outcome. MANY teachers instruct backwards and take the shot outcome and figure out what caused it in the swing. John Jacobs comes to mind. He worked backwards from ballflight. I never looked at my bad shots the same way after reading that. They pretty much tell me what I just did wrong. And there are only so many ways we can deviate from the fundamentals to get us out of synch, biotmetrically speaking, which is what you like to do.

We try to be efficient, and suggesting something that may not be the case without seeing what's happening is just not efficient.

And we want to fix what's easily fixable first, then move to fix things that can be overcome, and try to not fix things that don't need fixing or are difficult to fix; and the grip is #1 on that list.

Most who try to fix their swing worry about the ball, then they react to the ball, that's why people never improve, they're always reacting to the ball and what it's doing instead of fixing their root causes. Changing a grip because you're hitting it too high/short, or whatever is not great blind advice if we don't know what's happening.

blueonblack · Sep 9, 2020

TrueMotionMatt said:
We try to be efficient, and suggesting something that may not be the case without seeing what's happening is just not efficient. And we want to fix what's easily fixable first, then move to fix things that can be overcome, and try to not fix things that don't need fixing or are difficult to fix; and the grip is #1 on that list.

Most who try to fix their swing worry about the ball, then they react to the ball, that's why people never improve, they're always reacting to the ball and what it's doing instead of fixing their root causes. Changing a grip because you're hitting it too high/short, or whatever is not great blind advice if we don't know what's happening.

There is SO much instruction out there that says shaft lean is harder to do with a weak grip. So everyone else is wrong, huh?